Simply ‘Ellen’s’ term stays a puzzle, there appears to be zero-that named Ellen or Helen, except maybe an enthusiastic ‘Eleanor’ towards Joanna’s front side (Eleanor of Aquitaine, mommy away from Joanna’s father King John)
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The key purpose of this workout is to use, by the a look at genealogist’s views on the subject and by consulting certain understood amazing source, to choose who had been mom of Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Was she Joanna, partner regarding Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, died. March 1237) or is actually she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch off Rhos, mistress of Llywelyn, created circa. 1168, died??
I’ll follow this that have a secondary investigation to the it is possible to life of good ded Susanna, considering off to King Henry 111 because a good hostage in the 1228 with her child custody getting granted so you can Sir Nicholas Verdun along with his wife Clementia.
The brand new opinions of one’s Genealogists that we has actually learnt are merely one, viewpoints, as well as differ significantly. Zero particular research can be found in any event, but have to declare that the majority keep to have Gwladus to be the newest child out-of Joanna. This is also true of the genealogists of one’s descendants out-of this new De- Braose relatives, however they ily to-be linked with the Welsh and you can English regal houses!
The ensuing list out-of Llywelyn’s multiple legitimate and you will illegitimate youngsters appears to get fundamentally acknowledged by the most of the genealogists which i possess learned with the exception of differences over whether no. 9 extremely existed. The fresh schedules out of birth given just below are also disputed by the particular:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, passed away 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, created circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince of Wales, created circa 1208 (1211?) (second thoughts about it go out, look for after), died twenty-five March 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1210, passed away 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – created circa 1210, you’ll twin in Naviger til nettstedet order to Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, or ‘Susanna’, produced circa 1214? Died 1259?
There clearly was far conflict across the label of parents off these people. There is general agreement your merely specific students regarding Llywelyn’s age Prince away from Wales and you can Ellen (Helen) whom partnered (1) John the fresh Scot, young buck of the earl away from Chester and (2) Robert de Quincy. Even if viewpoint try separated along side moms and dads away from Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and Susanna, all of the genealogists You will find learnt slim into the their mom are Joanna.
This is exactly partly with their going times from delivery since better since their marriages to various marcher lords who, you to supposes, would have needed to line-up their homes to this of their neighbor, the fresh new Prince from Northern Wales and his spouse, the king regarding England’s child. It is felt that these types of lords of the March wouldn’t have obtained a whole lot attract otherwise political inspiration from inside the marrying out-of the sons on illegitimate daughters out-of an effective Welsh prince which have a great Welsh lady.
As to the names of these children, whether or not of the Joanna, Tangwystl or someone else, they were every entitled immediately following members of Llywelyn’s nearest and dearest:
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Llywelyn’s mom are called ‘ed ‘Susanna’ of Gwynedd. His paternal grandmother try entitled ‘Gwladus’. The parents out of his grandmother Susanna, had been ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you will ‘Angharad’ of Flint and you can one another the names got in order to Llywelyn’s pupils. So it Susanna and additionally got a brother called ‘Gwenllian’, the same identity as the Llywelyn’s great grandmother.