Inside 1228, it seems that that it same Clemence along with her husband Nicholas were chose for child custody off Joanna and you can Llywelyn's daughter Susanna (aged about fourteen?). is apparently into the child become raised into the a secure and you may safer environment into the window of opportunity for a better knowledge. the fact have been becoming leftover away from their unique. The latest custodial grant is actually because of the Queen Henry III, half-brother to help you Joanna and you may 50 % of-bro in order to Susanna, the decree titled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you will Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A question today presents by itself. If the Joanna try new daughter of Clemence le Boteler, regarding, appear to a keen English home, how do we define exactly what Joanna is doing when you look at the France when King John sent to have their inside the 1203? You to definitely possible answer is that Clemence's dad, Philip ce Boteler are French, instead of English. It actually was common at that time for all of us to hang qualities on the both parties of the Channel. So it ed their dilies compared to English parents during this time period.
The sole book in which We have came across a reference to Clemence Pinel – partner of Henry Pinel (aside from Charles Cawley within the Wikipedia) is actually Alison Weir's ‘England's Royal Parents: The entire Genealogy and family history (London area, 1989).' It guide was indexed of the one to genealogist due to the fact ‘not very completely annotated hot white Brasiliansk jente.' My own personal trawl from the family history message boards receive scant site into the Pinel family relations, including Clemence's spouse Henry Pinel. Several records advise that Joanna is the latest daughter out-of Henry Pinel along with his spouse Clemence, however, no supplies, capable of being seemed, are supplied. I'm ergo lured to dismiss this lady out-of subsequent investigation. I can end up being extremely wrong.
Amount away from Mortain, from inside the Normandy, know off their [and perhaps
Clemence de- Fougers was new aunt of Richard de Hommet, Constable off Normandy, and you will Geoffrey de Fougeres. Their particular dad try William du Fougers. I've no date regarding birth (otherwise demise) out-of Clemence, but she was initially hitched in advance of 1200 (no time readily available) to Alan de- Dinan, and you may try popular adequate to wed in October 1200, as the their particular second spouse, Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl away from Chester and you can Vicomte d'Avranches, has just divorced (relationships annulled?) regarding Constance regarding Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured you to definitely Earl Ranulph separated Constance in order to have got an event having King John!
Of course, do which Clemence function as mommy off Joanna, she’d additionally be the fresh grandmother from Susanna, however, there is no need to trust that the more youthful Joanna know, immediately, that there is actually children dating, if the
Since Clemence de- Fougers try daughter and cousin of Constables out-of Normandy, It is believe likely that John, *knew* her, just before her matrimony in order to Ranulph]. A virtually link with John you are going to describe what would appear an extremely advantageous 2nd relationships having Clemence in order to Ranulph.
Ranulph, 6 th Earl off Chester yet not, is a robust baron also it beggars faith, no less than for me, that he would have acknowledged a wedding to a woman exactly who got got a well-known fling and you may a following youngster of the John, Count from Mortain some 10 years in past times. Like given the rumours related a prospective affair ranging from John and 1st partner Constance!